Curse

crook · Mar 02, 2011, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Me and a friend are trying to do hm dungeons with 6 heros. I'm a ritualist and he's a warrior. Currently we are usually using a setup where he takes a sabway build and I take 2 monks and a warrior, ofcourse we adept abit depending on what we are facing. We've managed a few hard dungeons but in some dungeons fights are really close and hard. Especially when we are getting party wide pressure. We arent really cornerblocking alot though, and he nor my hero warrior has a pure tank build.

So any recommedations on hero setup to counter party wide pressure or healers getting killed? Or is this a decent setup and should we just corner block more often with an actual tank build?

Mednes · Mar 02, 2011, 09:22 PM // 21:22

2-mandiscord worked for me for Slavers, Kathandrax, Rragar and Vloxen I believe and some more.

crook · Mar 02, 2011, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mednes

2-mandiscord worked for me for Slavers, Kathandrax, Rragar and Vloxen I believe and some more.

I'm not a big fan of discord, find it quite boring, but I'll keep it in mind if no1 else has a suggestion

**Marty Silverblade** · Mar 03, 2011, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Don't run Discord, especially not if you can run something other than henchies in the last 4 slots like you can. I find Sabway is a bit outdated (don't know if there's an updated version on PvX though). It would be good to see which builds are being run to make sure you're not running something bad.

Also, don't tank with a Warrior. If you're not running a damage build, you're doing it wrong. Keep in mind the distiction between tanking and holding aggro (which you should do whenever possible) though.

aga · Mar 03, 2011, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Imo, discord is the worst build, i really do not rate it all. I've never used it, I prefer sabway-style. Tbh a warrior and rit playing together with 6 heroes should be pretty easy, if you're running spirit spam build, you can set up spirits to block any mobs your warrior friend lets through.

People underestimate prot monks in PvE, but I rarely do anything without one, prot spirit being the key skill, it's really vital and with the heroes reaction times it often stops a spike in its tracks. I do not see the point of having a warrior hero (or any melee for that matter) since their AI is terrible when it comes to chaining attacks and spamming for optimum dps.

I'd recommend something along the lines of, your warrior friend runing 100b (and corner blocking) you running spirit spam, with SoS. 2 monk heroes, 1 healer and 1 prot, an SS, a MM, a mes with either VoR or panic and multiple interupts (even if he has panic) and then something with support value, I quite like n/rt with icy veins, splinter weapon, ancestors rage and the common resto spells. A set up like that should be able to handle any dungeon. Also have your warrior run "save yourselves" if he's not already, it's such a /win skill.

Arctica · Mar 03, 2011, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Well, you may try running spiritway you being a DwG, while your friend can run a 100b build bringing along a helaer, a protter and an n/rt SS with MoP and some support skills, like Ancestor's Rage or splinter weapon.

If interruption is essential, you may drop this later hero for a PI support mesmer - with again splinter and Ancestor's, or with MoP, Barbs, Enfeebling Blodd, or whatever - with your friend running an Earth Shaker build.

crook · Mar 03, 2011, 09:40 AM // 09:40

To answer Marty Silverblade, currently we are usually running:

Rit/any spirit spammer (=me)
Warrior/e (my friend)
N/rit Sabwayhealer
N/Mo Sabwaycurser
N/Mo Sabway MM
Mo/me hybrid prot/healer
Mo/me hybrid prot/healer
Warrior with earthshaker

We have been doing dungeons from the first try, at some points it just feels very unstable. I guess we should use an elementalist hero instead of the warrior for damage? I thought about going spiritway + dwg aswell, but I fear heros are very bad at keeping up their spirits?

Aga, we are actually running most of what you said

I guess our problem might be the warrior hero and the lack of proper aggro management? We are not quite sure how the aggro management is usually done by other players since we only started playing guild wars more serieus a year ago. Usually atleast one or two mobs are running rampant amongst my monks. I try to use mobile spirits to block them, but I cant keep doing that and it just totally ruins our damage output.

EDIT: Also my prot monks are great, but even with some energy management they spam certain prot spells when they dont need to be spammed or heals and run out of energy pretty fast. Should I use energy runs or vitae+survivor? Is a 100b build a great damage build for a warrior? He is currently using some cunjure lightning build, never played it myself.

AndrewSX · Mar 03, 2011, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Looking at you're team i'd say...
Get rid of necro cureser and trow in a Mesmer(Panix or PI are best choices probably), it will reduce a LOT damage to handle, coupled with utility and damage. You'll be impressed.
About heals, you've like...N/rit Sabwayhealer+ 2x Mo/me hybrid prot/healer. I'd suggest to use only 2 dedicated healers or(as i prefer..) use 1 powerful healer(UA monk) coupled with a protter to mitigate most damage(ST works well, ER also is good when using minions). Dedicated MM is ok (until there're corpses obviously).
Human player+MM(expecially if using AotL) should be anough frontline damage/block, and cause now meele heroes are meh, i'd change the war with something else. A communing spirit spammer would be fine, until you're microing it(you channeling/hero communig or viceversa is probably best choice).

Just my ideas.

crook · Mar 03, 2011, 10:22 AM // 10:22

I've actually tried an UA monk last time with a prot instead of 2 hybrids and things went worse actually

(edit: or did u mean an UA/HB monk build on heroes?)

Ive been thinking about bringing a mesmer aswell, seeing as how useful those few interrupts on my monks already are. What are the best damage builds or useful builds for warriors out there atm?

Leon_c6 · Mar 03, 2011, 11:36 AM // 11:36

I've not done a lot of Dungeons in hard mode but I'd question having 3 healers in the team (well Sab healer & 2x heal/prot monks).

I'd preference dropping one of those and replacing that with either a Mesmer for interrupt or someone else that'll provide more damage. Afterall you won't need to heal/prot half as much if the enemies lying dead on the floor

Mednes · Mar 03, 2011, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Why are people so negtive about discord? I meant 2-mandiscord which is far more powerful than 2 ppl running 3 hero discord build. And I've done some nasty dungeons with it (easily) so idk if people really know what they're talkign about.

[Nika] · Mar 03, 2011, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by crook

To answer Marty Silverblade, currently we are usually running:

Rit/any spirit spammer (=me)
Warrior/e (my friend)
N/rit Sabwayhealer
N/Mo Sabwaycurser
N/Mo Sabway MM
Mo/me hybrid prot/healer
Mo/me hybrid prot/healer
Warrior with earthshaker

We have been doing dungeons from the first try, at some points it just feels very unstable. I guess we should use an elementalist hero instead of the warrior for damage? I thought about going spiritway + dwg aswell, but I fear heros are very bad at keeping up their spirits?

Aga, we are actually running most of what you said

I guess our problem might be the warrior hero and the lack of proper aggro management? We are not quite sure how the aggro management is usually done by other players since we only started playing guild wars more serieus a year ago. Usually atleast one or two mobs are running rampant amongst my monks. I try to use mobile spirits to block them, but I cant keep doing that and it just totally ruins our damage output.

EDIT: Also my prot monks are great, but even with some energy management they spam certain prot spells when they dont need to be spammed or heals and run out of energy pretty fast. Should I use energy runs or vitae+survivor? Is a 100b build a great damage build for a warrior? He is currently using some cunjure lightning build, never played it myself.

Isnt that a little bit much defense?? i mean the necros dont deal great damage they are more defensesupporter; same as the earthshaker war (melle-KI is still bad) and the 2 monks..

crook · Mar 03, 2011, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Nika]

Isnt that a little bit much defense?? i mean the necros dont deal great damage they are more defensesupporter; same as the earthshaker war (melle-KI is still bad) and the 2 monks..

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, but with 2 healers its been hard. I would drop the sabway aswell, but had a hard time convincing my friend to drop sabway.
Anyone has a good DwG build?

sirblack · Mar 04, 2011, 01:02 AM // 01:02

I highly recommend using something like Spiritway. While there are other good builds out there, I've seen that Spiritway is very effective.

From my own experience: I've taken my Elementalist through all the HM dungeons. I started out with Sabway and henchmen. While that worked decently and got me through some of the easier dungeons, some areas were still very difficult. Once I switched to Spiritway and henchmen, I found it remarkably easier.

Also note that I ran a fire build the entire time. So Spiritway combined with decent pulling/aggro tactics is good enough that it can even carry a player with a mediocre build

through all of HM.

I pretty much used the exact setup from that PvX link. For henchmen I usually took Zho (for interrupts), Herta (for extra defense and a some damage), Mhenlo, and Lina. Having been getting back into reading about effective builds more recently, that's probably a little too defensive. Herta and even one of the monks can potentially be swapped out for others depending on the areas.

For you specifically, as Ritualist and Warrior players, I would say: You could run either of the ritualist builds on your character, and then bring a rit and a necro hero to cover the other two. I also definitely recommend at least one hero should have an interruption build - either a Broadhead Arrow Ranger or one of the various good Mesmer builds. After that, at least one Monk, and then the last two slots as whatever seems to fit best from your experiences. Your Warrior friend can concentrate on damage-based builds (Hundred Blades, Dragon Slash, whatever) since tanking isn't really necessary most times.

For tactics: In the easier areas or with smallers groups of enemies, just run in and start the fight. In harder areas, pick a spot outside aggro range, park your heroes there, and cast the long-lived and quick-recharging spirits (Signet of Sprits, Bloodsong, Pain). Then have your warrior friend aggro to enemies and lead them back to your spot. Having minions and spirits parked and ready to go like that helps immediately tip the battle more in your favor. After that it's pretty much standard smart playing and tactics... try not to aggro more than one group at a time... try to focus down the most important/dangerous foes first (usually monks, rits, eles)... etc.

Also, consider trying to bring Pain Inverter in your build somewhere. It works well given that any area attacks by enemies could be hitting up to 8 characters, 10 or 11 minions, and numerous spirits at the same time. That can easily add up to a lot of damage put back on the enemy, in some cases nearly killing it in one blast.

Quote:

I guess we should use an elementalist hero instead of the warrior for damage?

Actually Elementalist damage kinda sucks in HM due to all the high armor ratings. I haven't properly experimented with it, but I think Mesmer heroes might be more effective. And in addition to their damage they can bring along interrupts (and maybe even fast cast rez).

Quote:

I fear heros are very bad at keeping up their spirits?

I've never really had a problem. If the spirits aren't up, they seem to put a good priority on casting them. And with a lot of minions around, the long-lived spirits often stick around quite a while. Then only issue sometimes is when you move to a second fight nearby and some of the spirits are still alive within "spirit range" but not close enough to actually fight. In that case the heroes don't recast them on their own. But a little bit of micromanagement solves that easily enough.

Malician · Mar 12, 2011, 08:56 AM // 08:56

War + rit is a great combo.

I recommend running one Ether Renewal Elementalist and either one Healing Burst monk or some random heals on your necs/rits.

You'll want at least another rit, maybe two mesmers and a pair of necs. I suspect you guys are just running really subpar builds. Do not bring health / armor / self-heals, but rather micro prot spirit onto yourself as you aggro.

Hundred blades is crap unless you know what you're doing with it (N/A nuker or blood + SoH buffbitch Nec, neither of which you have.) You could try a warrior's endurance axe build.

mage767 · Mar 15, 2011, 07:46 AM // 07:46

This was me today doing Duncan HM w/7 heroes, no conset and no frozen soil:

http://img216.imagevenue.com/galshow...73716117_159lo

Since you are war, follow the screens to identify good aggro spots. Granted I had 2 wipes (one was crazy aggro, other I got lazy), I think killing almost all foes under 1 hr is moderately fast for Duncan HM. I also took my sweet ass time moving spirits away from Duncan. Duncan himself went down fairly fast.

Me: Baltu Derv w/swap
2x mesmers: FD, Panic
1x monk: UA
3x necros: SS, JB MM, Discord MM
1x rit: ST

Xenomortis · Mar 15, 2011, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

I think killing almost all foes under 1 hr is moderately fast for Duncan HM. I also took my sweet ass time moving spirits away from Duncan. Duncan himself went down fairly fast.

As a benchmark, Duncan HM with a little practice shouldn't take much more than 30 minutes (no more than 40) with H/H. I'm not sure how to revise that with 7H but it certainly won't be longer.

mage767 · Mar 15, 2011, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

As a benchmark, Duncan HM with a little practice shouldn't take much more than 30 minutes (no more than 40) with H/H. I'm not sure how to revise that with 7H but it certainly won't be longer.

I forgot to mention that I was happily taking snap-shots, restroom breaks and on chat while I was doing the dungeon. I did have 2 wipeouts, as explained, because of these activities. Spirits were moved casually as far as possible, which also took some time. Obviously, it can be done in half that time on my second run. If I bring frozen soil and optimize a few bars, it should take even lesser time. I forgot to bring frozen soil and realized it too late in the dungeon, but the good thing is, my damage output exceeded their res speed.

Str0b0 · Mar 15, 2011, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Honestly I just use a cheap team build that utilizes all the hero usable meta builds. I still use Sabway, it still works fine. Then I add in the spiritway rits since they can use the sabway mm. I toss in a Panic mesmer and usually a prot monk of some description. I don't have problems with much content using that set up. It's not terribly inventive or creative but it works and you can easily tweak builds for certain dungeon specific strategies.

Obviously you're not speed clearing anything with this, but if you pull and flag well and are willing to micro a little bit you shouldn't have many problems or deaths. It's even fairly forgiving of over aggro unless it's just a huge group.